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This was a great review because it was so boring I couldn't bother to follow the plot. It took me three tries to watch it all the way thru, and then only in the background of what else I was doing. Maybe it was too real! Politics get involved and that's the end of the fun, like always. The scene(s) at the airport are all wan and barren - very boring. I didn't keep up with all the banter and found it tedious. Oh, well.
I agree. I hate the way modern movies and television assail us with "conflict for its own sake", constant conflict in lieu of creative writing. Sure, conflict is important, but it needs to spring from story thrust and not be an end in itself. The first Avengers movie made that mistake with the constant infighting between the good guys. It almost had a genuine justification for it with Loki being a conniving and psychologically manipulative villain, but the writers really missed the opportunity to bring intrigue and originality to his underhanded plan. Batman vs Superman? I'm not even bothered to ever see it. And Doctor Who constantly throws pointless and unmotivated conflict at us. It's as if the writers think "Hmmm, how can we make this scene more interesting? More conflict!". It's garbage writing.
Spidey's witty one-liners and awkward humor: in other words, Spider-Man finally talks and acts like he does in the comics. As someone who has read many a Spider-Man comic, Tobey Maguire's emo Spidey was painful (good for what it was, but painful). Andrew Garfield was better, but still not comics!Spidey. Tom Holland's Web Head actually talked like Spidey did in the comics and I love his portrayal.
I have seen some of your video's and you do seem to romanticize the American conservative movement. Just an FYI that's all propaganda. The politicians don't legislate that way. OK back to my point. Certain regulations are needed to maintain a balance and public safety. The problem is that society as a whole isn't capable of passing laws that way. You got one side who wants to over regulate to the point of limiting progress and then you have the other side who wants laxed regulations that causes problems that hurt people. Hopefully society as a whole finds it's balance where we are all safe and what needs to be done for progress isn't restricted.
I agree with you on many points. However I actually liked Spiderman in civil war and thought they did a great job with him. I do agree with you on the airport scene. The airport scene to me just didn't have enough at stake, because like you said you knew everyone was going to be ok. The only fight that seemed, to me at least, to have any stakes was the last scene with cap and bucky fighting Ironman. That was the only time I was like "woah this just got real" which I feel like I should've felt that way throughout the whole movie, not just one part. Overall I had very mixed feelings about it, I liked spiderman and certain elements, but it just doesn't have the same stakes as the actual comic. That being said I think that marvel had a lot of different things to juggle and that in order to get a true adaptation of civil war it would've had to have been either extremely long or broken up into two movies
Bit late to this party, but I'm going to disagree with you here for the reasons already given in the comments. However, the bit immediately after the airport battle is the real problem:
Cap and Bucky scoot off in the quinjet and in the time it takes for them to fly from Liepzig to Siberia, the rest of his team are arrested (though by whom and how isn't explained) and are taken to The Raft prison. Tony and his team fly back to America, he takes Spiderman home to NY, goes to the hospital where Rhodes is being treated then goes upstate to the Avengers' compound, has a row with Black Widow then sees the evidence that maybe Cap was right all along. He then takes a helicopter out to The Raft (somewhere in the Atlantic it would seem), does his visit there then takes off again and goes off in the Ironman suit to follow Cap and Bucky to Siberia ........ and arrives a few minutes after them! The quinjet must have been trundling along at the speed of a rural bus!
There was either some incredibly sloppy writing just there, or what seems more likely, some truly mental editorial choices. That portion of the film is the only thing I didn't like, but it's incoherance bugs the hell out of me.
Captain America Winter Soldier was way better than the first. I actually fell asleep on the first movie. That and Dunkirk were the only movies I've ever fallen asleep on in the theater and I've seen hundreds of movies in the theater.
I'll have to disagree with your comment about Spider-Man and it's inclusion entirely. Especially on the subject of 'witty one-liners'. That was the aspect of comic I missed most from the other attempts at the movies, it was entire aspect of the character where he tried to hide his lack of self-confidence and possibly fear under constant barrage of quips, to occupy his own mind from the situation.
It's oftentimes doubled down on the internal monologues of the character when he realizes he has gone too far on that route and is getting his ass kicked on the fact alone that he was too focused on quipping than paying attention.
Sorry, have to disagree with you on almost all points. Collateral damage is something governments are going to want to touch on, inevitably, and not without reason. Black Panther was kind of boring for most of the movie, but his last scene (pre-stinger) was great. And Spider-Man should be spouting one-liners as he fights (admittedly he was probably over-awkward here)
"...far too much emphasis on witty one-liners and awkward humor."
Umm... were you able to say that with a straight face? You complain often about the vandalism of beloved, classic characters but now want to curtail Spidey's trademark humor? Come on, I don't always agree with your reviews, but they are rarely inconsistent and show such gross hypocracy.
What pissed me off the most is in the ending where Ironman's anger towards Bucky for his parents' death is like if Batman and Nightwing found Joe Chill and Tony Zucco, the two criminals responsible for their parents' deaths, and instead of taking them in or beating them up for emotional reasons, they would take the gun Chill used to kill the Waynes and the pocket knife that Zucco used to cause the FLying Graysons' demise and just destroyed them while ignoring the people who used them. Because as it was established in the Winter Soldier movie, Bucky has no free will when he is in the Winter Soldier mode.
The Starks were assassinated by HYDRA who used the brainwashed Bucky, who again had no control or say over his actions, to kill them. And Iron Man briefly even acknowledges this by calling Bucky a 'Manchurian Candidate' before forgetting that not five minutes later.
I like the new Spiderman. He is closest to the comics and I like the fact he is younger and wittier. That was part of his charm. Also, you miss the big point that Spiderman was not a Marvel studios film franchise but a Sony film franchise until 2015. Spiderman was a big part of Avengers for years in the comics.
Civil War was an ok movie. The villain was the weakest of all villains. The Bucky/Cap stuff was the best part of the film. The film was convoluted, but it wasn't bad. The film was entertaining. But not awful or great. I agree the first two Captain America films were great and probably the best of the MCU. Maybe Avengers 1 is up there. Also, Spiderman: Homecoming was mostly great. Guardians 1 was my favorite though actually.
I agree it's a shame they didn't make a real Captain American 3. The dynamics between Captain America, Falcon, Bucky, and Fury would have been interesting, but it doesn't sound like they were making a good story before the Civil War thing was integrated. I wanted to see more elements of the excellent Winter Soldier comic on screen.
1 – you have missed the point entirely about the premise of the film. They want to register the heroes because they have now seen just what they can do and how dangerous/valuable they can be. It wasn’t “oh boy you guys caused a lot of damage to the city while saving it and we don’t like it, you guys need to be registered”.
It was “Hey look tony stark created this robot and now this mother fucker fucked up a whole country by the name of SOKOVIA” thus the SOKOVIA ACCORDS. Tony feeling guilty is like yea your kinda right we should be kept in check even if that means our freedom is taken away. After all one of these special individuals did KILL MY PARENTS.
And FYI your logic doesn’t break the overall logic of the plot. You are actually siding with Captain America… you know if you didn’t realise. You talk about there will be collateral damage, obviously, but I fail to see how it disarms the plot as a whole? And no one ever talks about collateral damage being an issue?
2 – Please stop complaining about the number of movies they are pumping out, its not forced there is room to grow in this universe. Far too many people bring this point up in total hypocrisy. Whats that a book wants to produce more sequels to its franchise??? A loud thunderous applause is met by the audience and all those around ah-la harry potter. Even in your previous video you talk about your love for star trek and the long string of TV series it made from the 90s – mid 2000’s, but oh no, never a mention of them milking the franchise. (yea I know you never said milking specifically, but you implied it with your spiderman rant, which I will get to later)
It’s simple really, some universes have more longevity and ground to cover than others. One piece for crying out loud has been going on for decades and not one person ever complains. Why? Because it has the legs to have such a long story, it even adds to the narrative.
3 – If anything this “mind less” fight was a reaction to the batman vs superman movie, it literally opened x months after BvS and was announced after BvS. In some respects it was a market strategy but Kevin Feige and Co do a good job to still have it fit in the overall Arching story. This movie breaks the avengers before the upcoming Avengers Infinity war. This movie works on its own but also as a whole. Who honestly cares how many other Heroes were in the film? As long as the focus was on Captain America as a whole
Spiderman Homecoming did do a better job at this with only having iron man appears on screen with Peter on a couple of occasions and in the other times he was physically isolation so as not to draw attention. However Civil War did need a different approach due to the very concept… it was A CIVIL WAR. You are going to have to address some of these characters that haven appeared before right?? You can’t make the claim against peter parkers “back door pilot”, what else are they supposed to do, not address where he came from?
This movie was focused on Cap, the final fight scene only strengthens this claim…noticed how the heroes were only dwindled down to the select few that had PERSONAL STAKES IN THE STORY… Cap, Bucky and Iron Man. You basically know that none of principle characters would die in the first 2 cap movies. You knew that iron man wouldn’t die at the start of iron man 1, that’s still good though right? You know certain people won’t die in an adaption of a movie based on real events, does that lower the quality? No, this is an illogical claim, it’s the journey that makes it REWARDING / EXCITING not if a character could die. Did it have a Hollywood ending? No, fk no, they still hate each other.
Your entire review felt like you were yelling “oh look guys I’m not falling for the marvel formula, nope, not me, I’m so diligent and objective. Aren’t I so cool by ripping on Marvel movies hahahah lamo but at the same time I’ll give them my price of admission for the next installment. I won’t stand for marvel milking the franchise. Why don’t they just go back to making comics like they have been for the past 50 decades………”. I can’t even recall any redeeming qualities you gave the film?
And for fuck sake are you seriously going to complain about rebooting the character? Have you even followed the fucking movie rights for the past 10 years…………. APPARENTLY NOT. SONY REBOOTED IT 2x… Technically Marvel hasn’t rebooted it… ever…. This is their first go at the character. They were able to FINALLY get a deal with Sony to use Spiderman and what do you honestly expect them to do? Keep the original fucking content they had before when it doesn’t make sense in their universe? No so they had to “REBOOT IT”. They aren’t going to sit around for 10 years saying.. “oh now is the right time so people won’t think we are money hungry”. And as many people have stated that is spiderman character in a nut shell.
Oh and as an FYI, yea we wana fkn see the heroes fight one another, its too good an idea to pass up.
Why don’t you go back to your star trek tv shows, because oh look HERES ANOTHER LONG WINDED TV SERIES YOU HAVE TO SEE. No the movie isn’t perfect but many of your claims are just..crap. I would hardly call it a review it was more of a rant - Thus my rant.
oh come on, Dave... this is a rare miss for you to cobble together an argument this weak.
the plot for Zemo is not convoluted or complicated in any way. Widow dumped all of SHIELD/Hydras secret data on the internet, Zemo was a spec ops soldier for Sokovia and gleaned some previously unknown information from that data, he went looking for it in real life, and the point was to deliver this info in some way to Tony Stark to poison his relationship with Steve Rogers. thats it. he learned a thing and proceeded to go directly for it so he could get it to Stark at some point. everything he does is a response to events happening around him that he cant control so his path to the info he wants changes as a result. hes basically calling audibles the whole time.
playing this movie off as only 2 hours of brainless action is patently untrue. using the events of AoU and CA:WS they have a set up for a very believable villain, set against a backdrop of an interesting philosophical question which even you enjoyed, that culminated in an emotional fight at the end between the two pillars of the MCU which called upon a decade of movies we spent with these characters for an incredible amount of emotional investment from the audience. it was fantastic.
do i really need to point out that the argument of "theres no tension because you know none of them will die" is a facile argument thats too often regurgitated all over the internet?
I enjoyed it for a lot of the things you listed, mainly, that it was a quasi-Avengers film, which I though was better than the actual sequel. I have to disagree on the Spider-Man comments also, as him having witty one-liners is part of the character, a part of him that was lacking in the previous films in one way or the other.
MahsaKaerra eh, I'd say he can't be blamed because he's rich; he'll just throw money at the politicians and UN until they concede. The others? Fucked. And the worst part is that at least three of the avengers are war heroes who don't deserve to be treated like this. Hell, Rogers stopped America from being wiped out. Yet the UN has the gall to treat him in such a way?... Actually, looking at what the EU is doing to Poland, I'd say dick moves are the norm for them.
And just forget that the whole Sokovia thing really was Iron Man's fault, his playing around with an infinity stone. And it is also kinda Thor's fault because he knew better and was literally there when it happened, yet did nothing.
If anything, Tony is the one who needs to be policed, but being the affluent only child of a billionaire who died in his teen years, Tony Stark refuses to accept the guilt and responsibility without also compelling a load of other people to go down with him.
I was bothered by the hypocrisy in this film. Secretary Ross heading reining in The Avengers for destruction that resulted from their actions, while ignoring the destruction resulting from his own. T'Challa, acting as Black Panther, going after Bucky, was a direct violation of everything the Accords stood for, even though his sole purpose for being there was to support the Accords. And, yes, everything about Spider-Man in this film felt wrong, forced, and rushed.
No one liked the Civil War event in the comics, and looking at this film they didn't do a better job. The movie shouldn't had been a Captain America movie, as they definitly make Tony the "villain" of the film.
In the Civil war even, the sides were showed a bit more equally. Cap's being about freedom to do what's right and Tony's believe reining in heroes that cause massive damage as repentance as an arms dealer. Tony's reasoning feels very bland with a woman confronting him in an elevator about her son having been killed in the rubble that not only was caused by a madman, but he helped stop more lives from being lost, and the woman herself comes off selfish probably knowing this to have been the case. Also, there really wasn't much explanation why her son was in such a remote place to begin with. He could of been fleeing arrest for nefarious crimes, it's unknown.
Black Panther's part in the movie feels very ham-fisted in as more of a product placement for the upcoming movie just like Spider-man.
They really just lost the core reasoning for the Civil war just for an excuse of a superhero fight scene, and really sets up the downfall in quality for the MCU.
Homecoming, Thor 3 were not very good either and saw massive drops in attendance.
While I understand the principal idea behind the Accords I always felt that the execution and the methods by which they were being used I thought you could and this entire squabble with one question: what happens when the government decides Iron Man is too much of a risk or Scarlet Witch or Captain America? What happens then?
It's not that Marvel doesn't have lots of decent villains, it is the fact that Marvel Heroes, for decades really, have stopped being costume crimefighters and have become Philosophy Fighters, as this film and pretty much every X-Man film shows, and paramilitary strike forces. If a villain isn't going to take over the world or destroy it or attacks one of the heroes for personal reasons, there is no reason to have costumed villains in the movies or comics nowadays and the heroes won't bother to stop them. Which is a crying shame.
They should have ported the plot of the Civil War comic event instead of the one they ran with in this movie. Granted, the secret identity issue would not have been showcased since there are no secret identities in the MCU but the point of the heroes being "government agents" would have been a simpler story than this tangled mess.
While i disagree with your opinion i must say it is very well articulated. BTW, Kevin Feige admitted that the major reason Marvel made this film was because of the massive Batman v Superman hype. So yeah storytelling wise, it wasn't necessary.
Civil War is my favorite film from the mcu because of the social commentary you can take away from it. Personally, I didn't think the story was convoluted; I understood it and found it to flow smoothly. Things don't just happen to happen: a chain of events leading up to the emotional climax. It carries a serious tone with some humor that is not overbearing but fitting. I will agree that Marvel has a "villain" problem but Zemo is an exception.
@5:00 - just checking, but you are aware that "witty one-liners and awkward humor" was actually Spiderman's greatest defensive ability? Hell, it was one of the reasons he was my superhero when I was younger, he was the original shitposter, heh. His banter throws off his opponents, enables him to punch waaaaaay above his own weight class. Also why one of the few he didn't stand a chance against was The Punisher ... Frank Castle didn't have time for his banter and cleaned Spidey's clock fast, in the old comics.
I was happy to see that bit, was almost like they were getting closer to finding the classic Spiderman I've been hoping to see all along.
Civil War was done a lot better in the comics, well of course all of them are done better or used to be done better in the comics. My main thing was when they have that big clash they treated it like a joke. There was no emotion just a bunch of jokes. War Machine was the only one anyone showed any emotion over but let's beat each other up and act like nothing is going on while we stand up for different ideals.
Civil War is I think very "predictive programming", but isn't everything (when you look at it through new eyes) ?😉
Bringing Avengers, through a False Flag, under the UN has references to a "World Police/Army Force" if you look at it as such. 🤔
Finally, somebody who isn't part of the circle-jerk about this movie!
The only thing I disagree with you is this: there were no "careless actions" in the opening sequence, at least none brought up in the movie. What, was Scarlet Witch supposed to let the guy explode in a crowd of poor people? Were the Wakandans only valuable because they were rich government officials??
Related to that is the idea that putting the UN in charge of ANYTHING is a good idea. Go look at East Timor, for an example of why pure bureaucracy cannot handle actually running things. See pretty much all of their police actions, and you will see that the more the bureaucracy is put in charge of military actions, the worse things get.
The reason the Vietnam War lasted so damn long? It was being fought out of Washington instead of by commanders on the ground. Again, bureaucracy fails at immediate action, and cannot cope with fast-moving situations on the ground.
What should have happened, was when White Fury said "New York. Washington. Sokovia. You're all the UN's bitches now," the Avengers should have laughed hysterically, Steve should have said "You're an idiot, we were STOPPING all those events. And no," they should have got up and left, and then the credits rolled. THE END.
This film was fun fluff. The initial "dilemma" was bullshit. Iron man and everyone who sided with him were idiots. The final fight was also bullshit. Iron man was an idiot. I didn't buy Tony siding with the government against his friends, and I didn't by him flying off the handle over something that he knew was 100% out of Bucky's control, and especially attacking Cap over it. It was all a lame excuse for a fun series of fight scenes.
I don’t know Dave. This was my favourite marvel movie by far. And the new black panther movie looks amazing... I don’t know why you dislike it... you are right the movie was to fill a hole with inter hero fighting. No complaints from me.
I said forget this movie when I found out Stark was on the side of the government and Cap was supposed to be the independent one. Completely flipped the characters around and finished ruining Iron Man (although I guess they haven't gone full RiRi...yet).
The old "let's have some government wonk blame the world's greatest heroes for the collateral damage caused while they fought off marauding space monsters" trope is as tired and boring as it is irritating and predictable, but I guess that's about the level of creativity you can expect from Hollywood and Marvel lately.
And really, the Avengers are all going to have a big brawl using deadly force to settle a disagreement? Yeah, that makes sense.
Dave, FYI, the witty one-liners from Spiderman is much more consistent with the comic book character, and I think they were trying to bring that aspect into the movies. Except he was actually witty in the comic book; I found the one-liners in the movie to be more corny than witty.
Call it what it is, another Avengers movie. The diehard rose glasses wearing fanboy with their memory biass refusing to apply any quality control on this stuff at all. It's another tripe Avengers film. As some reviewer said on Ant Man, "Find a cheap Avenger to put in, to tie it all together." It got a pass with Winter Soldier because it was an otherwise good movie, and I guess it needed a flying character? Who knows, but these films are at their best when they have nothing to lose. You can tell the "comfort zone" movies a mile away, and while it makes the fanboys giddy, it disgusts the rest of us. Realize that these zero-effort movies make the rest of us sick, and get over it.
I'd rather have another Iron Man 2, or another Winter Soldier than 10 more barftastic Avengers movies. The oversaturation is reaching sitcom levels. Focus on the standalones, Cap, Thor, Hulk, Ant Man, Strange, etc.. The Avengers movies need to be like 10 fking years apart. We'll never even get another real Hulk standalone, and Ruff is SJW trash along with half the cast, director, etc... Instead of having an amazing Hulk trilogy we get... barf. Instead of an Ultron trilogy we get barf. The movies reek of all the bias. It's disgusting to see this crap rammed down our throat when we could be having more good movies and less feeder content because the actors/directors/producers are so up their own ass.
I like marvel movies because they are fun to watch. They use same formula for all of their movies to produce fun, enjoyable and captivating movies for the audience to enjoy to. These movies aren't "top 10 movies of all time" material, but that's ok because they don't try to be that.
Um sorry dave but I disagree.
It seems like you simply wanted more of what was in winter soldier,a spy movie with superheroes which is fine it was a great movie,but you are ignoring the reality of what the marvel movies are,comic book movies first and foremost and so have to satisfy the main people who are buying tickets......comic nerds.
That's why there was a hero fight "who's strongest! HE'S OVER 9000!",bla bla bla,because those are some of the biggest selling of the comics and the fans wanted to see it.
Spiderman was "rebooted"simply because marvel said they could do a better version and in my opinion they did.
The jokes he said were full on spiderman jokes straight out of the comic,as far as I remember...it's been a few decades,just as deadpool spouts a string of funny(crazy)stuff.
That's a well known and BIG part of spiderman's character going back 50 years or so.
In the case of the wakanda bombing it's debatable as "what if they waited for the police or special forces or a bombsquad to help deal with the situation could lives have been spared"opinion is completely a legitimate position for civilians to have as the team,cap,witch,falcon,went in without backup and for all they knew their was a nuke or vx bomb on the premises as well and would have killed millions if it went off.
Special forces have oversight why not superhumans?
"What comes first security or freedom"?
I say security because what good is freedom if your dead from lack of security.
The Airport clash was idiotic. The worst part of the movie. I always FF that thing.😂 Spider-man and Black Panther were redundant, couldn't care less for these characters in this movie.
The story was decent but nothing special. However, it sure was entertaining. 😀
marvel sold out long long ago.....all of these movies are garbage,nothing more,just like DC trying to cut into the Marvel cash cow of stupid people cheering in the theaters,and we all know[say it]black panther only is around and got his own movie because[say it]...he is black
that just makes it all the more sickening to even think about watching....Marvel and DC are SJW's and feminist loving cuck hand holding progressives..its so sickening,but i do like the idea of Wonder Woman though...hot stuff...but that too could have been done better..