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Agreed. DS9 took a little while for me to warm up to it. I distinctly remember not liking the pilot very much at all. However, both points could squarely be made toward TNG as well and that also became one of the few shows I ever actually made time to see. DS9 had some of the best stories.
Deep Space Nine was Star Trek at it's peak, It had the vison and future that gene rodenberry wanted for humanity but at the same time it had the flaws and potential that humanity at the time and still is struggling to achieve. TOS and TNG were both good in hilighting the potential future humanity but it always seemed like hunanity was too perfect. DS9 balanced that that it represented the ideals we thrive for but deep down we are still human. It had good science, Diplomacy, emotional development but also a good balnce of conflict, characther flaws and mispalced idiology and Action(more than TNG but not overly done like nemesis or Abram films did. Man i really wish in some way a star trek show will come set a bit in the future and we get to see how the star trek universe was shaped after the Dominion conflict not many modern fans know but that war will lead to serius reprecusions and change the future for star trek forver.
I was very late to the DS9 party (just watched it for the first time this year despite being a massive trek fan) and have to say there is a lot more to it than I thought when it was first released. Love it immensely and made recuperation from a serious accident pass quickly,
I completely agree with your entire synopsis. DS9 was the best of all of the ST series outside of TOS. I really did not appreciate it as much as I should have until I was older and really took the time to look at the characters and their developments. I never liked Dax for some strange reason but I loved the rest of the characters, even Gul Dukat.
0:12 Everything you said up to that point says it all really. Not that the rest of what you say for 12 minutes isn't good, just that the first twelve seconds say it all. It's been about four or five years since I watched the entire run of DS9, even though I've watched it multiple times in the past, but I just recently broke out my dvds and have just finished watching season one. The first thing that struck me, even though I already knew DS9 was better, was just how much better DS9 is than STD. In every conceivable way except maybe some of the CGI space effects. The writing, the acting, the characters, the model ships, the make up, the uniforms, the stories, the message of each story, etc are all a million times better than STD. Watching DS9 is like watching the most award winning movie of all time whereas STD is like watching a bad foreign knockoff of Sesame Street. And that's just comparing the first Season of DS9 which is the weakest season of the series.
I disagree. I thought too many of the episodes were just plain boring and some of the characters/acting pretty awful (Dax/Sisko). Being stuck on a space station and not able to go anywhere or do anything did not help. To me it was always, 'Deep Space Soap' being more about relationships and politics than new worlds, aliens and adventure. They tried to cure this with the Dominion and the Gamma Quadrant but it did not quite work for me. Odo and Quark were interesting characters but they gradually became more and more human-like over time until they were virtually indistinguishable from any of the human characters i.e. falling in love, sacrificing themselves to help others, and generally being far too nice.
This review is fair, overall it's a decent series. I personally couldn't stand Odo, he's always trying to demonize capitalism and everything Ferengi, meanwhile the Ferengi are some of the best characters in the show. They're demonized for wanting to gain wealth but they are much more honest about their wants and desires than any other characters.
It gets worse for me because of how Odo always looked down his nose at the Ferengi, especially Quark, for loving food, luxury, and sex but then when he becomes a "solid" he basically becomes a junkie and is a worst person than Quark ever was.
Worst off all when he is able to perform "link" he spends so much time(basically having sex) with someone he knows wants to kill/enslave all his friends, to the point where it almost costs them the war.
After all that plus the near constant self-sacrifice of Quark, does Odo treat Quark any better? Nope, he become a hypocrite and continues to demonize Quark and Ferengi in general for everything.
Liked this video before the first ten seconds passed. This series was amazing! Great characters with dimensions and flaws and one of my favorite all time villains, Gul Dukat. So much depth, expounding on former faces like Worf, Martok, and O’Brien, as well as the first memory-saving singing AI Vic Fontaine, so much awesome in this series :>
Agreed. DS9 was really Deep ... Space. I didn't like how Brooks delivered his lines - he really annoyed the hell out of me. The second boss in The IT Crowd made me cringe in the same way. The Defiant is my all-time favourite Star Ship. Not many ships havs real personality - the Defiant felt alive. I think it's strange that you point out that you did this for fans since we already know this shit. And at the end you say "if you haven't seen ST:DS9..." Was it for fans or not? You're weird Dave - still smart though. HAL would have played you like a violin. :)
It may not be immediately, or ever, obvious but I like these videos.
I recently binge watched DS9 and Next Generation and I have to say if you watch DS 9 back to back over a couple weeks you will find it is the most underrated Star Trek show to date, followed very closely by Voyager. When the Dominion war kicked off and you start seeing Federation people in the Trenches and massive fleet on fleet battles this show will grab you if it already hasn't.
Personally I didn’t like DS9. It is probably because I wasn’t able to see every episode. Then again, I didn’t like TNG much either because it was too non-confrontational, at least early on. I’d no doubt like DS9 if I had time to watch it all.
DS-9 was largely a ripp off from Babylon 5 in many ways but was great nonetheless.
Because it did show that the Federation was not perfct in how they dealt with the Federation rebels also called the Maquis.
The franchise introduction of a sinister Federation secretive organization called "Section-31".
One of my favourite shows. Like all Trek shows, it takes a couple of seasons to ramp up and take off. I don't know why this is? If this were any other show on network tv, it would be cancelled and move on. The first couple of seasons are always the weakest and not fondly remembered. Are trek writers different from writers of cop shows, legal dramas, and family dramas? Are the writers uncertain of the character profiles they created from the get go? Why does Paramount have a kid glove approach to star trek series. Other networks would fix the ratings or cancel.
Rewatching some TNG after finishing DS9, it's funny to see Armin Zimmerman playing a ferengi in the very first season of TNG, in the first episode ever to feature Ferengi, they come across a ship and one of the two is Armin, which is pretty cool. Also noticed the actor who played Gul Dukat was also in TNG first, playing one of the town aristocrat types in the first parter of the episode where Data goes back to 19th century America after they find his dismembered head in a cave on Earth in present day. Got my eye out for Jeffrey Combs.
I had trouble with Sisko when it came out when I was young. Consequently I didn't get into it when it actually first aired. He was the worst part of the plot from the beginning. That being said, I enjoy it a lot more than TNG because now that I rewatch TNG I find it very preachy and pedestrian. I also agree that the characters are more interesting and intriguing than those we remember from TNG. Much of the new Enterprise crew was cliche, and I got so tired of the focus on Brent Spiner. I actually commemorate 12 September each year because it's the last time I had to watch that insufferable brat Wesley Crusher (who ironically dropped out of Star Fleet despite all the story arc time spent developing him). By the time I finished DS9 two years ago for the first time, I was sad to see it end. I grew to care about the characters and feel like I knew things about them. That is a hallmark of good storytelling when fictional characters seem real. They had real character flaws, believable motivations, and sparks of excellence just like real people, and they are much more relatable than any other group of characters in a Star Trek series. It was honest. It was willing to go where no other Trek series had gone before.
Agree!! I LOVE ❤️ DS9. Such great story arcs. Fully developed characters. No one is perfect. Some people surprise you with their heroism, accidental or otherwise. Avery Brooks was phenomenal. Garak and Odo also were wonderful - and Kira - even Quark.
Hit the nail on the coffin, loved your review.
DS9 did serialization about as well as you possibly could. It perfectly balanced the main story arcs that were supported by strong supporting story arcs and interpersonal/character development episodes. In the Pale Moonlight is by far my all-time favorite episode. It's DS9 in a nutshell, that the world isn't black and white. But tons of grey.
And Dukat, possibly one of the greatest TV villains of all time.
If your not already a fan, there is this awesome YouTuber named Razorfist whose currently going through all the episodes giving color commentary about the series in general. Just look up "Depths of Deep Space Nine". It's really good stuff.
Thank you so much for this review! DS9 is my favorite Star Trek of them all, and I've seen ALL of them, excluding Discovery, which I don't consider actual Star Trek. The deep layered complex characters, the heavy gritty themes, the arcing expansive story lines, and the phenomenal acting all cement this as the pinnacle of Star Trek potential realized. I loved it when I first saw it in my late teens but now that I'm (MUCH) older, it's only gotten better with time. I love that the villains were actual believable people, both complex and tragic. No one felt like an archetype or a cut-out. I genuinely cared about these people and felt the emotions that came with their ups and downs. My biggest complaint with the show was that the ending felt very rushed for all of the build-up, mainly the resolution of the Sisko/Dukat, Pah Wraith/Prophets story line. It really could have been served better with a bit more time and oomph spent on that particular climax. Still, the series delivered on everything else so well that I count that as a nit-pick. I still love this show deeply. It might be not just my favorite Trek show, but my favorite sci-fi show of all time.
So it turns out that Rick Berman, Michael Piller and Paramount plagiarized (stole is such a harsh word) Babylon 5 producer J. Michael Staczynski's concept and turned it into Deep Space 9.
That being said, DS9's execution both technically and dramatically was far superior.
I used to consider the first season slow and boring but recently I reevaluated it. While there are indeed a few weak episodes ('The Storyteller' perhaps being my least favourite) it is nevertheless a vital part of the season, as most of it is concerned with world-building and setting up story-arcs. Indeed, each of the first couple of episodes following the Pilot is dedicated to one of the Main Characters.
DS9 is currently my fave TREK. Not perfect (nothing is) but superior to pretty much all others. But I want to rant a tiny bit. We are told explicitly the Ferengi culture is all about profit, Klingon about honor in war, Romulan about ruthless winning, Vulcan about self control through logic, etc. These are all explored in the franchise to various degrees. But the Bajorans--whose homeworld a series spent seven whole years as the virtual location of a series--never ever came so alive. We are told they are all about their religion--but even now I can tell you almost nothing about their religion other than they worship the Prophets (which is about as useful as understanding the Middle East by being told "they worship Allah" and nothing else). DS9 explored Cardassians and Ferengi superbly, while we got to know quite a lot more about the Romulans and Klingons (plus of course the Founders, the Vorta, the Jem'Hadar). But what can you genuinely tell me about the Bajorans or their religion? Did they believe in an afterlife? I know that answer for Ferengi and Klingons. How do Bajorans view family and marriage? Again, I know that about Ferengi, Klingons and Cardassians. Do they have a concept of sin or something similiar and if so what is it? Yet again, we know the answer regarding Ferengi, Klingons and Cardassians as well as Vulcans. These are the building blocs of a culture, of a world view. The only interesting detail we ever learned about the Bajorans is that they used to have a caste system just before the Cardassian invasion--and that they has a starfaring civilization a long, long time ago. Interesting hints to be sure, about whom we learned nothing more in seven years. As to their faith--the thing Bajorans were supposed to hold central to their entire lives--essentially nothing. What the hell is a Pah? I simply don't know. What did the Pah-Wraiths want? I know what the Shadows wanted on B5, what the Dominion wanted, what the Klingons and Cardassians and Ferengi want. I know pretty much why the Borg did what they did. But these super important Pah-Wraiths, the devils of the Bajoran religion? No idea. Except they hate the Prophets and Bajor for some reason. Why? No one even bothered asking this question! So it wasn't even presented as a mystery, one perhaps beyond our ken to comprehend! It was totally unexplored. The Prophets at least seemed alien but with some kind of strange agenda. They were cool. But Winn--a religious fanatic who functioned as a villain in the show over and over again. What was her ideology, other than personal power? What did she or Bereil or Kai Opaca believe in? These are three major religious figures among the Bajorans--two of them the equivalent of the Pope/Dalai Lama here on Earth. Yet what was their faith? I have no idea. Because in seven years the show never asked that question. Their faith was a general, generic, unspecific semi-mysticism, sort of maybe. BSG explored the religion of the Colonies and of the Cylons. We know about Klingon and Ferengi religious beliefs. Yes, this is in keeping with Gene Roddenberry's well-known total dismissal of religion as nothing but superstition--except that is not any kind of an excuse. JMS, who created B5 is an atheist, but he explored the religious beliefs of cultures in his show. George R.R.Martin is also an atheist, but different faiths in GAME OF THRONES certainly inform cultures and the people who belong to those cultures. At its best DS9 explored in dramatic (and sometimes comedic) fashion clashes of cultures, as well as internal conflicts of characters struggling with living up to their own ideals. This never happened with the Bajorans because there IS NO BAJORAN CULTURE. Nothing. Without that, you cannot have those kinds of stories. So when we see stories about Bajor, it is entirely generic or vague or totally uninformed by the characters involved being Bajoran. Kira's whole story arc, for example, never ever depended on anything unique to her being Bajoran. If she had been (for example) Trill or Acamarian or any other alien-species-of-the-week that happened to have undergone conquest by the Cardassians, nothing would be different. Now imagine how her story would have been different if she and her people were Klingon. Or Vulcan. Sorry for the length of this but it bothers me. Bothered me then and does now.
DS9 has been and always WILL be my favorite of the DS9 series for a multitude of reasons.
DS9 had elements of humanity and wrote a story about however noble and peaceful a civilization (or government) it WILL find itself at war at some point. The Dominion war was really gritty at times but it did display just what happens when a government focuses all of its funding for scientific or social programs, it will be woefully unprepared for any conflict. When the Dominion War did kick off in earnest the federation were loosing, badly. Entire fleets wiped out, millions of casualties and numerous core systems lost to Dominion Soldiers. The only thing that kept the federation alive (literally) was the intervention of the Prophets in keeping Bajor safe. This bought them time to cripple white production, destroy shipyards and ultimately bring the Romulans into the war (through a not very moral method of doing so)
earth is a flat plane covered by an impenetrable dome. the sun, moon, and stars are small and actually inside the dome. outside the dome is water. 'space' travel is a satanic lie intended to brainwash you into accepting the fallen angels as visitors from another 'planet' when they appear. but they were already here, trapped under the unbreakable dome
Quark and Garark were my absolute favorite characters in DS9. Tho it has my least favorite doctor. Bashir didn't do much for me and I felt Worf was hamfisted in and he felt eh, the whole series, but they gelled well enough with everyone else.
I hated how political the story it was (echoing your comments), but it really, really grew on me. The acting was spot on.
Sadly, the ending felt rushed to me, everything worked, eh.
I watched TNG, DS9, Voyager and Enterprise when they were originally broadcast.
Loved them all but liked DS9 and Enterprise most.
A couple of years ago I set about watching them all again. As of today I have finished TNG and DS9, and I'm in season 4 of Voyager. So far once again DS9 is my favorite. I'm looking forward to Enterprise.
DS9 was a totally different series with story lines that almost didn't match the other Star Trek series. Most of the story took place aboard the space station itself. This little bit of everything including politics also made this story different. DS9 receives an A+++ as a result.
Always thought it was the closest to the original series best beat points. Kirk would have tried punching Q too!Can't wait for your review of Lost in Space that Netflix has released. Myself, I gave it up after the 4th episode.
Very excited for the new DS9 Documentary, I helped fund it and got my beloved deceased moms name in the credits. I love how much DS9 is having a revival right now. Do you play star trek online? June is the Ds9 "Victory is Life" expansion, and a lot of our beloved actors will be appearing in game. You should cover the game!
DS9 was a higher budget, but worse attempt at B5; nearly stealing the idea (if one looks up it's history.)
Surely it has it's moments, but it also has near entire seasons of episodic Trek. Compare that to B5, and it only has few espidoes which are purely standalone. Each season of B5 built upon itself, and had the same themes of war, religion and tolerance, in a much tighter, dramatic style. JMS was simply that good.
DS9 is the best Star Trek series in my opinion. But it totally ripped off Babylon 5. The creator of B5 first pitched his idea to Paramount which turned him down, but used his ideas in DS9. If you like DS9, then you definitely should watch Babylon 5.
I love all the treks but Ds9 is actually one of my least favourite star treks, half the characters were unlikable and badly acted and it didn't seem to get that good until after worf entered the show.
People say that sisko was this dark, cool and badass captain. I say if you want dark and badass then Picard in first contact, archer vs the xindi and Janeway against any powerful enemy would be a better choice.Conservatives and anti SJWs also like him because "it was about his ability as captain and he never brought up the colour of his skin" which would be great if it was actually true, sisko actually made his blackness an issue multiple times. If you want a black character that doesn't mention being black then that will be laforge, mayweather, tuvok and Ohura.
The dominion war was brilliant but most of the episodes had little or nothing to do with it. Garak and miles are probably my favourite characters of all star treks though.
If I had to choose the best star trek show, I would pick DS9. Granted, I don't believe in "best star trek", they are all great in their own ways, including Discovery (which to me is the closest in tone and realism to DS9 than any other trek). Man, I loved every episode of DS9 and can remember vividly watching some of the iconic episodes for the first time.
DS9 is the best ST and episodes eg In The Pale moonlight may be the best SF episode of any show ever. DS9 had dark moments and light moments one of the reasons for its greatness.
If you haven't seen it, B5 is at least as good overall.
Great commentary. I was one of those conservative TNG fans. I didn't like DS9,but eventually I gave it a chance and oh my god is it good. I like the slow pace in S1-2. Popular banter about show getting good only after introducing defiant, to me is kind of shallow. Post-occupation story arc at the beginning of the show is brilliant. Episode Duet is probably my favourite. And when you look at the whole show everything somehow comes full circle. It's a story about war. And a great one. It's like you said, TNG spinoff. It's like a prog rock concept album xD TNG is side A, DS9 being side B.
My only problem with DS9 was they stole the original idea from Babylon 5. It started the trend of a "War Arc". I do not know if it was planned from the 1st Session or just came about later. Now the "War Arc" is used when ideas are starting to run out of gas.